Ep 302 - What Appears When You Google Your Brand?

Jason Barnard joins Kim to talk about your Brand SERP or what Google shows when you type in your or your company name and how you can control that.

Highlights Include:

- You need to control your Google presence because potential business checks you out.

- Why you need your book on Google Books

- Why you need separate entities for yourself and your business

- The power of having a knowledge panel and how to get one easily

Jason Barnard is an author and digital marketing consultant. He specializes in Brand SERPs (what appears when your audience Googles your Brand name) and knowledge panels (what Google understands about who you are and what you do).
His backstory - from playing the Cavern Club in Liverpool to touring Europe playing double bass in a punk-folk group to playing the role of a cartoon blue dog in a TV series to remote working from a tropical island in the Indian Ocean...
https://kalicube.com/about/invite-jason/invite-jason-barnard-on-your-podcast/

Find out more !

Transcript
[00:00:00] Narrator: You are an entrepreneur, a professional, a speaker, or a coach. And although you've come a long way, it's time for you to take it to the next level. We've got you. This is the Author to Authority podcast. We'll help you use authority and influence your marketing to build your business stronger and faster by publishing a book. You'll hear from guests that are thought leaders in sales, marketing, networking, communication, social media, promotion, and business leadership. Let's do it. This is the Author to Authority podcast, and now your host, the extraordinary word ninja, Kim Thompson-Pinder.

Introducing Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) and His Journey From Music and Cartoons to Digital Marketing

[00:00:51] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Welcome to the Author to Authority podcast. And today, we are covering a topic that I don't think we've ever covered from this vantage point before. And we're going to be talking about The Brand SERP Guy, Jason Barnard. When I was talking to him and looking at his stuff and checking out his interviews, I was amazed at his knowledge on how to use Google. And I was just so impressed that I'm like, I've got to have this gentleman on the show. So, welcome, Jason.

[00:01:32] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Thank you so much, Kim. It's delightful to be here.

[00:01:35] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, Jason is an author and digital marketing consultant. He specialises in Brand SERP, what appears when your audience googles your brand name, and Knowledge Panels, what Google understands about who you are and what you do. Now, he came from playing the Cavern Club in Liverpool, to touring Europe,playing double bass in a punk folk group, to playing the role of a cartoon blue dog in a TV series, and to remote working from a tropical island in the Indian Ocean. So, I definitely want to hear a little bit more about that. Jason, take a few minutes and just introduce yourself and share a little bit more about your story with us.

Starting as a Musician in a Punk Folk Group, Jason Barnard’s Life Is About Doing What He Loves and Making the World a Slightly Better Place

[00:02:23] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. The way you put it sounds like a really interesting story. And we can add to that now and say, I'm now in Oxford using Oxford University libraries to write and research a book. And a lot of my life has just been about what's a fun idea? And I don't need to be at Oxford, I don't need to use the libraries, but it's a lot of fun and it makes me feel slightly more intelligent, as I said earlier on. And the whole process of my life has been what do I really want to do? What do I feel would be nourishing for me as a human being? And what would make the world a slightly better place?

[00:02:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And playing in a punk folk group, obviously punk folk is quite aggressive, but it made a lot of people happy. We ended up with quite big crowds. We'd get 2-500 people. And making people happy, having a good time at a gig was really, really, really positive for me, and I enjoyed it immensely. And then being a blue dog in a cartoon was for small children. So, it was all about educating small children between the ages of 3 and 6, teaching them about the world through the eyes and the actions of a blue dog and a yellow koala in a cartoon.

Jason Barnard Then Got Into the Internet by Managing a Website for His Cartoon Characters, Which Led Him to the World of Digital Marketing

[00:03:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And I actually got into the internet through the blue dog and the yellow koala, because we had a website that was phenomenally successful. By 2007, it was the 10,000th biggest site in the world, and it was just for kids. And we were competing with PBS and Disney and the BBC. It was really exciting. And it was 100 million page views a month, it was 5 million visits a month, it was huge. And what was great is we were living on a tropical island in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Madagascar with a team of 4 people running this site. And I was being a blue dog and my wife was being a yellow koala. What a lot of fun that was.

[00:04:15] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so, that then led me to the new career, which was when I pivoted from that and became a digital marketer. If you searched my name on Google, it would say Jason Barnard is a blue dog, and that's not professional. And I realised the result for my name on Google is my business card. When I was pitching to clients, they would google me even during a Zoom meeting or after a meeting. And so, I worked to get it to change from Jason Barnard is a blue dog to Jason Barnard is a credible, authoritative expert in Google. And it worked.

“You learn, you grow, you change, and sometimes you switch to something completely different, but you take the lessons that you've learned along the way.” - Kim Thompson-Pinder

[00:04:47] Kim Thompson-Pinder: That is awesome. I love that. So, Jason, I love the fact that you didn't have any problems just switching your life around. You completed one segment of your life and you're like, I need to do something else. And I think sometimes, as entrepreneurs, we're afraid to switch things up. We think we have to stay in that one same thing forever. And you don't. You learn, you grow, you change, and sometimes you switch to something completely different, but you take the lessons that you've learned along the way and you apply them.

Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) on Accepting Changes, Deciding What to Do Next, and Preparing for Lean Periods

[00:05:24] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. That's brilliantly put. And I think, as you say, a lot of people think, oh, I can't do that because it's too different, or I can't do that because I'm in my safe place, my safe lane, and it's working okay. And actually, each of those changes wasn't a choice. It was forced on me. And it was just what I was doing was stopped very abruptly in each case, and I just had to decide what I would do next. And I think what was lovely is I could sit and think, what do I want to do next, rather than, what do I need to do next to make a living.

[00:05:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And to be honest with you, I was talking to my daughter the other day and she was saying, I remember as a child, there were periods when we had lots of money and nobody ever worried about money, and there were periods when we had to worry about money and we didn't have that much to spend. And that's part of it, I think, as well. You have to be prepared to go through those lean periods. And if you're not prepared to do that, then stick to your safe lanes, because the lean periods are always going to come and they're always going to be there.

[00:06:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And somebody else asked me about running my own company and saying, I don't have the motivation to get up every morning and do it, and I would be worried constantly about the income. And I get that. And I think it takes a specific kind of person not to worry about it. And if you're going to worry about it all the time, you'll make yourself ill, you'll get an ulcer, and you won't sleep. So, I think you have to be honest with yourself about what you are willing to put up with in terms of lean periods and worry about income.

Small Talks About the Weather, the Right Time to Write a Book, and Jason Barnard’s Experience of Living in Mauritius

[00:07:00] Kim Thompson-Pinder: It's one of those times for me right now, because I spent the whole summer getting ready to move across the country. We had lived in the same house for 30 years. I had about 6 weeks to pack a house I had lived in for 30 years, sell that house, buy a new house across the country. And so, my business just stalled out because I wasn't really working too much on it. And I've learned, over the years, you do go through lean periods.

[00:07:33] Kim Thompson-Pinder: And even sometimes, just the cyclical nature of your business, that certain times a year, your business is going to be more busy than others, and there will be slower times of the year when the business isn't coming in as much. And almost every business has those types of seasons throughout the year. Most people I know are not interested in starting to write a book the end of November, beginning of December. It's not on their game plan. Now, January…

Some People Like to Start Writing a Book After the Holidays Are Over Because They Consider January as a Fresh Start After the Winter

[00:08:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, is January the fresh start?

[00:08:05] Kim Thompson-Pinder: The new year, the fresh start, Christmas is done and over with, all the visiting, all the holidays, all the taking a break. It's a fresh start, it's a good time to start writing a book, and it's winter depending on where you live in the world. Here in North America, Canada and the northern part of US, it's winter. Sometimes you don't have much else to do.

[00:08:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Very good point. In Mauritius, in January, it was the middle of summer, so we'd be sitting on the beach.

[00:08:34] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Nice.

[00:08:35] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. It was pretty nice.

Jason Barnard’s Experience of Living in a Tropical Island, Where It Is Always Warm and Quite Boring

[00:08:38] Kim Thompson-Pinder: That's one of my bucket list things to do, to go someplace hot for two weeks in the middle of a winter.

[00:08:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, right. And you haven't done that?

[00:08:50] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Not yet.

[00:08:51] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, right. I went there and stayed 13 years. And when you go to Mauritius, what's lovely about a tropical island is it's warm all year, but it's also quite boring. And you get up in the morning and say, oh, not another really sunny day, which is terribly ironic. And the other thing is, in Mauritius at least, we didn't really have seasons and we didn't have different hours or different darkness hours. It was pretty much, gets light at 6AM, gets dark at 6PM, day in, day out, throughout the year. And the weather, hot to very hot was your choice.

A Similarity Between Canadian and English People: Constant Weather Small Talks Because It Is Always Changing

[00:09:27] Kim Thompson-Pinder: You know it's funny, being a Canadian, one of the things we talk about a lot is weather. Because here in Canada, it can change 20 degrees in a day. You can go from wearing a winter coat and pants in the morning to be in shorts and a t-shirt in the afternoon. And so, in Canada, the weather is always talked about because it is always changing and you just never know what you're going to get.

[00:09:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Okay. And the English are the same with the weather and talking about it all the time, so similarities there. But yeah, now I'm in Oxford writing a book at the wrong time of the year, because I'm not supposed to be writing a book at this time of the year according to your theory in November.

[00:10:08] Kim Thompson-Pinder: No. You don't start writing a book at this time of the year.

[00:10:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Okay, so I'm not cheating then. That's good news.

Writing and Publishing a Book May Not Make Enough Money, But It Brings Authority to the Author

[00:10:13] Kim Thompson-Pinder: You're not cheating. It's just when you look at it business wise, and I look at my clients, most of my clients are entrepreneurs, professional speakers, and coaches. At this time of the year, they're just focusing on getting through everything, so they can take that Christmas break.

[00:10:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That's a really good point. I think I've taken on too much, but that's a story for another day. I was looking at the title from Author to Authority. I find that really intriguing because I published my first book in January of this year, and it sold 500 copies, which is reasonable. It didn't make me any money, but it has made me a recognised authority, both in the eyes of my audience or my industry, but also by Google. It's been hugely helpful in getting Google to understand my topical authority on Brand SERPs, search engine results page for a brand name.

[00:11:10] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so, the book, in and of itself, is not a great business move in terms of it took me 6 months and made me 500 times a couple of dollars, so a thousand dollars, let's say, from sales through Amazon and self-publishing, but it's brought me a lot of authority and a lot of business thanks to that authority.

Besides Sales and Credibility, Google Will Also Easily Represent You to Your Audience if You Put Your Books on Google Books

[00:11:28] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Yeah. People ask me, what kind of ROI can I expect from publishing a book? And I said, don't expect to make money from book sales because that's not what you use the book for. Like you said, people see you differently as soon as you become an author. You become a more credible expert than someone who's not an author, and it's not true. It's a perception.

[00:11:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It is.

[00:11:53] Kim Thompson-Pinder: But my thing is why not go with the perception?

[00:11:57] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, a hundred percent. And a lot of life is about perception. It isn't about getting more contacts necessarily, but closing more deals more easily. And from a Google perspective, if you look at the Brand SERP, what people see when they search your name, because Google understands books very well, it will understand the author. And that means that writing a book and publishing it and putting it on Google Books will mean that Google will naturally and easily be able to represent you to your audience when they google your name correctly around the topic of that book.

The Importance of Being Represented in Google About Who You Currently Are, Especially for Authors

[00:12:28] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, you just said something really interesting there that I had never thought of before. See, my books are on Amazon, but they're not on Google. And you just gave me something there. I'm rebranding myself because my story was I started writing books back in about 2012, when I was in network marketing, to teach people how to network market. And a lot of times with my Google now is when people google me, that's what they're seeing and that's not who I am anymore.

[00:13:00] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, I think I need to get my new books up on Google so that it'll replace those other ones, because I don't want to get rid of those other books because they still sell. They're making me a little bit of money, but it's not who I want to be seen as. And it's part of my history of who I am. Those were the first books that I wrote.

Kalicube, Jason Barnard’s Company, Helped a Client by Educating Google About Who He Is Today as a Business Book Author

[00:13:22] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. And the thing about it is you don't get rid of the books. They're part of your history. They're part of your story. And one thing that is important, and we're doing it for a client right now, is that he has written, I think, 14 or 15 books. And the wrong ones are coming up on Google when people search his name. And he's saying, that makes me look not as credible as I would like to because they're children's books, I want to become more credible within the business space, and I've written 3 business books, but Google isn't showing them.

[00:13:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, part of what we do at Kalicube is to educate Google about who he is today. And so, basically, we provide Google with the information that allows it to fully understand that the children's books were a past career, like my blue dog was a past career, and his current career is very much around business books. And so, we promote those books to the top. The other books still exist, but they're lower down.

“It's crucial for us as authors, business people, entrepreneurs, whatever it is we do in life, to make sure Google is representing who we are today.” - Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)

[00:14:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And for the blue dog, for example, if you search my name, Jason Barnard, you'll see that the blue dog is still on the Brand SERP. You'll still see the blue dog, but he doesn't take up very much space because he's not relevant today. That's crucial for Google, and it's crucial for us as authors, business people, entrepreneurs, whatever it is we do in life, to make sure Google's representing who we are today, because we all have a history and our histories are all mixed and matched and changing. And the current situation is what we want our audience to see or I would imagine.

What Are Some Things That Entrepreneurs, Speakers, and Coaches Can Do to Start Improving Their Brand SERPs?

[00:14:56] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, Jason, I know you came prepared like that. Okay. I'm going to be chewing on that one for a while. Sometimes when you've been an entrepreneur for a long time, there's a lot of things you've heard over and over and over again. And I like it when something new comes to me that I can think on and ponder on. How do I then implement it? What I'd love for you to share next is what are some actionable things that my audience of entrepreneurs, professional speakers, and coaches can do to start improving their Google SERP?

[00:15:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Great question. Because the first thing is to identify entities, and that sounds really complicated, but it isn't. You've got to disassociate yourself from your company. If you have a company, that's one thing, and you yourself are another, and you own the company. Even if it's only you in the company, it doesn't matter. It's two different things.

[00:15:49] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And you need to educate Google about who the company is, what that company does, and which audience that company serves, who you are, what you do, and which audience you serve. And obviously, the audiences and the topicality are going to be very similar, but you need to identify that it's two different entities. That's number one.

After Identifying Entities, the Next Step Is to Make Sure You Have a Entity Home That Google Will Believe

[00:16:08] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Number two is to make sure that those entities have a home, what we're calling Entity Home. It's somewhere the entity lives online, a page that is controlled by the entity, the person or the company. And Google is actively looking for that page online that explains who you are, what you do, and which audience you serve.

[00:16:31] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And there you can explain to Google the facts, what your priorities are, which of the books you want to put at the top of the Google search results. You put them at the top of your page, this is current, and then you go down backwards through your life to the bottom, which is least current, i.e. in the past, right at the bottom.

[00:16:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And Google will look at that, and it will go around the web, and it will find all the corroborative sources that prove what you're saying. And at that point, it will believe you. So, it doesn't just believe you because you say it, but it wants your version of the story and then it will check. And if your story checks out, you'll get a great Brand SERP.

Some of the Platforms That You Can Easily Use and Services Offered for Optimising Your Brand SERP

[00:17:07] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Okay. So, how would someone go about doing that? And I realise there's probably a lot of technical stuff, but is there something that very practically, say, I wanted to do that? Would there be a step? Is there a place that I can go to do that? What would you suggest?

“Every person and every company who has any kind of digital presence needs to look after their Brand SERP.” - Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)

[00:17:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Well, in fact, if you go to kalicube.com, you'll see that we have a vast amount of free information. We don't keep secrets. We share all of this with everybody, because our philosophy is every person and every company who has any kind of digital presence needs to look after their Brand SERP. And we can't possibly serve them all, so we might as well share how we do it. And then those who want to do it, who want to spend the time learning and look after it themselves, you're welcome.

[00:17:57] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And for those who don't and want us to do it, we'll do it for you. If you've got a particularly difficult problem, you'll probably need our help. But basically, if you have that Entity Home and you explain very clearly who you are, what you do, and which audience you serve, and what your priorities are of what you want Google to show, if it checks out, as I said, it will show that. And you don't need to be geeky. It can be a one page website.

Besides Kalicube’s Services and Offers, Platforms Like Duda and Wix Are Simple to Use and Doesn’t Need Any Technical Skills

[00:18:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We currently use Duda. Duda is really simple to use. It's a really great platform. I used to use WordPress. WordPress can get geeky and complicated very quickly. Duda is simply not complicated. Wix is another good one. So, Duda or Wix, create yourself a one page website. You can put that up in a couple of hours. It doesn't need any technical skills.

[00:18:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And then if you think you need to be geeky, we've got a guy called G. Scott Graham, who came for one hour of consultancy with me. I told him exactly what he needed to do. We recorded the consultancy session. I sent him the recording with a transcript. He executed everything that I told him to do. And he went from no Knowledge Panel to a brilliant Knowledge Panel with his books, with his social media profiles, with the description, with his photos. And it was really simple, and he didn't write one line of code. It was great photos, great description, and linking out to all the sources that corroborate what he was saying on his Entity Home. Simple.

The Credibility You Could Get From Google if You Have a Knowledge Panel

[00:19:19] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, the Knowledge Panel, that's sort of the overall content, like your websites.

[00:19:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): The Brand SERP is the whole result. But on desktop, if you look at Google results, you'll see there's a left hand side and a right hand side. The left hand side is the blue links, video boxes, things like that. That's Google's suggestions and recommendations. On the right hand side, you'll see an information box. That's the fact according to Google. So, the Knowledge Panel is part of the Brand SERP, and it's Google's understanding of the facts.

[00:19:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, having that makes you look incredibly credible, if I can say incredibly credible, because Google has understood you and is validating who you say you are. And it's basically Google's stamp of approval. This person is an authority. This person is important. This person is worth looking for. And if you don't have one, when somebody googles your personal name, you should get one.

The Effect of Giving Advice and Telling What Should Be Done to the Sensibilities of Some People

[00:20:17] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Okay.

[00:20:18] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Sorry, telling you, you should do this. I shouldn't be giving advice. I have a friend who every time I say you should do this, he gets really upset. He said, no, what you mean is I could do that and you advise me to do it. It's not something I should do. And it's the idea that it's an absolute. It's a piece of advice. This is something you could do, and it would be a very good idea.

[00:20:39] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Okay. Let's put it this way. If you want people to google you and see what you want them to see, then you should do these things.

[00:20:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. I hope my friend Hugo isn't listening.

If You Want to Get Results, There Are Things You Should Do as an Advice From an Authority or Expert

[00:20:57] Kim Thompson-Pinder: You know what? We all have choices. But I think when you are that authority, when you are that expert, I think there are times you need to use the word should. Because if you want to get the results, then there's things that you have to do, you should do. And if you don't and you don't see the results, well, you and I can have this conversation. And if I don't do anything about what we're talking about today, I can't come back to you and say, oh, it didn't work, because I didn't do what I should have done.

[00:21:30] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. I think because it affects Hugo's sensibilities, I think, I better be careful about it in general, but in fact you're right. As an expert, as you said, if you want your Google Business Card to look great, if you want Google's stamp of approval, if you want to look credible and authoritative when somebody googles your name, you should work on your Entity Home, and you should write a clear description, and you should have the photos, and you should have that bio that shows what's important right at the top.

Kalicube Offers Courses and Free Learning Resources Where It Explains the Hows and Whys of Brand SERPs

[00:22:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And it really is simple. What I find astonishing is what I'm teaching and what I'm talking about is so simple. Anybody can do it. You go to kalicube.com, you look in the learning resources, everything is there. And it's free.

[00:22:15] Kim Thompson-Pinder: And it's free. I love free.

[00:22:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): For us, the idea of saying if you really want to geek out, we've got courses and you can buy courses and you can learn from me. We've got 12 hours of video lessons about all the details and all the technical stuff, and you can really get into the meat of the whole question and really understand it, but you don't need to understand it in order to do it. And that was something I made a mistake with a few years ago. I wanted everybody to understand the why. And in fact, people only want to know what do I need to do?

[00:22:50] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, I'm focusing much more on the how, and kalicube.com explains the how. It also explains the why, but you don't need to read the why, so you have the choice. Whereas if you're going to take the courses, you're going to get a lot of why this is the case, because it will help you to understand better why you're doing things and how to expand it and apply it to different case scenarios.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Jason Barnard’s Book Writing Process

[00:23:12] Kim Thompson-Pinder: That is awesome. So, we're going to switch gears here a little bit. You said you're writing a book, so I'm going to give you the question that I give to every person who's either working on their book or has finished their book. So, the question is this, what has been the good, the bad, and the ugly of your process so far?

[00:23:35] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I'll talk about the first book. The good, the bad, and the ugly was I thought I was being very clear. And I got some help from a real writer called Emily Batdorf, who rewrote it. And it didn't make any sense. And I read it and I thought, but I didn't say that, and she had misunderstood. And it wasn't that she wasn't clever. She is very clever. It was that I hadn't explained it clearly, and I hadn't been able to put myself at everybody else's level in terms of not intelligence, but understanding of the situation, understanding of Google.

“You have to understand what level your audience is at.” - Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)

[00:24:08] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And that taught me an incredibly valuable lesson about not overestimating your audience and not underestimating your audience obviously either, but you have to understand what level your audience is at and right at that level. And it's very difficult to do. For me, there are so many things that are obvious that I think that's not even worth explaining. And Emily would say to me, you have to explain it, like what is a Knowledge Panel, for example. Because if people don't understand what it is, they won't understand a word of what you're saying. So, that was an incredibly valuable lesson, and that's why it took six months. I think I now do a better job.

Besides Considering Your Audience, an Author Should Not Also Be Scared of Repeating Information When Writing Their Book

[00:24:43] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): The second point that I'm starting to realise is that I shouldn't be scared of repeating myself. And what I've noticed by reading the newspaper, for example, is you read an article about the American elections and they will repeat little sentences. They would repeat something I'd read a week ago, and I think, well, I already know that. And I now realise that they need to do that for people who hadn't read that article. And the fact that I had read the article, I just skipped through the sentences very quickly.

[00:25:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, as long as they're not overly heavy with the explanation, you don't go into detail. They just say, this happened last month, click here to learn more, or a link through to the full article. You don't need to be scared about repeating yourself because you need to keep people on board. And the idea that I said something in chapter 1 and the person gets to chapter 12, and they still remember exactly what I said in one particular sentence in chapter 1 is a foolish mistake.

[00:25:36] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And that repeating, as said in chapter 1, the Knowledge Panel is the information box on the right, then it reminds them they can go back to chapter 1 to read that. And we don't bore people who did remember it, but we keep people on board who didn't necessarily remember it or skipped the chapter completely.

The Importance of Balanced Repetition, Which Could Also Be Called as a Reminder, When Repeating Information in Your Book

[00:25:51] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Yeah. And I think you're right that repetition in a book, again, balanced repetition in a book. I've worked with some of my clients. Some of our clients, we write their books, and some of the clients, we work with them after they've written their book. And one thing that I had noticed in a lot of the clients' books they had already written, there was too much repetition.

[00:26:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Okay.

[00:26:20] Kim Thompson-Pinder: So, they were repeating the same thing almost every chapter, and it got very obvious. So, there is a balance to repetition in your writing. I think it's a good thing. Too little, it's not effective. Too much, and the people are like, seriously, did I not read this same exact sentence?

[00:26:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. I suppose. Actually, the word I should have used is reminder. And it's the same thing, but a reminder is and isn't the same thing. It is repetition, but it's minimal repetition.

[00:26:57] Kim Thompson-Pinder: It's the same idea worded differently.

Keeping People On Board, Giving Yourself Time to Digest Information, and Seeing Other Perceptions of How You Can Say Things

[00:26:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. And cut very short. So, yeah, you are right. I was speaking about my particular topic, which is actually very geeky. So, you need to keep people on board and need to be sure that people, as you're reading, you don't remember and digest everything. That was something I learned when I was doing the blue dog and yellow koala, because we were learning how to make Flash animations, websites, run a huge server, and then we did a TV series.

[00:27:23] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And what I realised after a while is I would be really stressed out because I didn't understand how to do something. And once I gave myself a little bit of leeway and said, well, I'll keep working and in 2 weeks or 3 weeks, it will all drop into place and don't put pressure on myself. And I think that's one of the things in learning that people forget. You are not going to understand everything today, even if you've read it all. You need to digest, reread, see other information, see other perceptions of how that can be said, and it will drop into place.

An Idea of the Timeline of the Changes You Will Observe When Optimising Your Brand SERP

[00:27:52] Kim Thompson-Pinder: I think that's even true with your Brand SERP. You're not going to understand everything at first, so you just start with the basics. Get the basics and don't worry about trying to get everything Google wants. Just start working towards having Google. See what you want to see. Because it's going to be a process anyway. Your Google is not going to change overnight. It's going to change over a period of time, so just start working on it.

[00:28:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And to give you an idea of the timeline, you'll start to see changes in a week. If you change your own webpage, which is ranking, that will change in a week. You will start to see a change in structure in about 3 months, if you work diligently. And you will begin to feel that you have control after a year. So, those are your timelines.

[00:28:39] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): A few weeks to see some nice changes where you're starting to think, oh, that's pretty cool. After 3 months, you'll start to see the design. Let's say, the design of your Google Business Card is changing and becoming something closer to what you want, and it's representing you more accurately. And after a year of good, solid work, you'll have a Brand SERP that represents you and that you, more or less, control.

Where Can People Go to Connect With Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)?

[00:29:02] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Wow. We could keep talking all day, but we have come to the end of the show. Jason, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your knowledge with us. Just before we go, you talked about Kalicube. Is there any other places that people can go to personally connect with you?

[00:29:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. This is a lovely question that I enjoy greatly. Because if you want to connect with me, search my name, Jason Barnard, and Google will present you not only with my Google Business Card, but with a choice of where you can connect with me and how you want to connect with me, which means that I don't impose it on you. So, what you will see is my Knowledge Panel with the facts, my website, number one, Twitter, number two maybe, my company website, if you want to do business, number three, LinkedIn, if you want to connect on LinkedIn. That's B2B. Twitter is more fun.

[00:29:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): My own website would be if you wanted to know more about me as a human being. You've got my YouTube channel. You've got my articles on Search Engine Journal, Search Engine Land. And as you can see, I've described these different ways that you can engage with me through the videos, the articles, my personal life, my business, or just learn about me factually from the Knowledge Panel. It's up to you, and I think that is the secret of a great Brand SERP.

Ending This Episode of the Author to Authority Podcast

[00:30:23] Kim Thompson-Pinder: Thank you so much, Jason. I have appreciated just having you on here and getting to hear your knowledge. So, this has been Jason Barnard and Kim Thompson-Pinder on the Author to Authority podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you on the very next episode. Bye now.

[00:30:43] Narrator: You've been listening to the Author to Authority podcast. The extraordinary word ninja, Kim Thompson-Pinder, has helped over 200 entrepreneurs, professionals, speakers, and coaches write and publish their books that have become incredible marketing tools for their business. And many of those have gone on to become Amazon bestselling authors and have used their books to land high level clients and get on big stages. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate, and review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the website at www.authortoauthoritypodcast.com. See you next time.

If you love the podcast, don't forget to check out Kim's book Author to Authority Volume 1. In it, she gives you a step by step guide on how to implement Authority Marketing in your business and gain the visibility you need to become the go-to person in your niche.

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